Posts by The Marvster

78

I believe that the greater percentage of JWs-You Will Not Be Able to Help, no Matter What Facts You Show Them.

by John Aquila in

so i ran into this brother whom ive known for a while and the conversation led into me being invited to come back to the kingdom hall.

we talked for about an hour during which time i explained to him 607 being the wrong date and a lot of other stuff including the child abuse cases in australia.

but what i wanted to relate was the last few minutes of our conversation.

The Marvster

secretslaveclass; Exactly...

also brilliant analogy re: Cypher from 'The Matrix',

'plug me back into the illusion, I know it's all fake, but I can't live this reality, i wanna forget EVERYTHING'...

78

I believe that the greater percentage of JWs-You Will Not Be Able to Help, no Matter What Facts You Show Them.

by John Aquila in

so i ran into this brother whom ive known for a while and the conversation led into me being invited to come back to the kingdom hall.

we talked for about an hour during which time i explained to him 607 being the wrong date and a lot of other stuff including the child abuse cases in australia.

but what i wanted to relate was the last few minutes of our conversation.

And to add, he has the audacity to tell you not to disrupt his life, when JW's every bloody day of the year, yeah including Christmas Day and New Yea'rs Day (supposedly spending billions of hours in field service), knock on people's door to 'disrupt their peace', in trying to get 'them' to walk out of their religion.. .and also trying to get ex brothers to 'come back' to the the org, by showing what they feel are 'facts' to try to convince people to change their minds and become JW's or for ex brothers to 'see the light' and return to a life those ex brothers usually don't really want to return to..... what F***ing hypocrisy...

one rule for JW's and another rule for the rest of the world.... they cannot take their own medicine can they?,,,, plain and simple....

78

I believe that the greater percentage of JWs-You Will Not Be Able to Help, no Matter What Facts You Show Them.

by John Aquila in

so i ran into this brother whom ive known for a while and the conversation led into me being invited to come back to the kingdom hall.

we talked for about an hour during which time i explained to him 607 being the wrong date and a lot of other stuff including the child abuse cases in australia.

but what i wanted to relate was the last few minutes of our conversation.

The Marvster

I only got half way through the brother's response and to me, it is basically an indictment on the JW belief system and doctrine...

What if all he said was correct?, then that would mean that all the time we all spent in the 'TRUTH' was a lie, there is no truth, there is only speculation, yet JW's will continue to go door to door and tell people they have the TRUTH and know what is going to happen.... isn't this just desperately holding onto 'anything', just to believe? what if there were no end to sickness? what if there were no end to death? what if one day humanity will be extinguished like a candle? it seems that JW's would rather believe ANYTHING, than consider that possibility. So they are prepared to 'give up their lives in the present' for a future they have no way of knowing will happen, and rather than being honest and saying 'we don't really know', they instead call it 'truth'.... and even though this brother 'might' be willing to admit that the GB have got it wrong several times, him and the group is with will STILL BELIEVE...

in recent weeks I've been posting responses on youtube after watching many ex JW videos, and reading JW defenses, and especially after watching segments of the Australia RC, I came to the conclusion that JW's aren't interested in TRUTH.... they are interested in something else, maybe 'hope', or something else that might insulate them from the 'unthinkable', that this might be it, or that they could be wrong, or that all the other religions have are no less right or wrong than they are...

they don't care for truth all they care about is protecting the belief system, if they really cared for truth then wouldn't they be asking lots of questions when the previous 'truths' got changed by the 'Guardians of Doctrine' several times? yet most just keep quiet and accept the new truth and ignore the fact that what came before was not truth at all. The only important thing is to maintain the belief structure. Man, I was so wrong, when i was among them I felt that I had too many doubts and 'the majority' really believed in truth.... it's saddening...

13

Women are Women and Men are men in the Real World , apparently not in J.W.`s world.

by smiddy in

according to j.w.`s the 144000 are a literal number of people , both men and women taken from the earth to rule with christ jesus in the heavens .this would also include judging in this role.

(see another thread about women as judges).

women in the religion of j.w.`s have no place in leadership roles ,cannot be elders , ministerial servants , or serve in any position of authority , and have no teaching voice in any congregation .. yet faithful anointed women can , upon their death rule with christ jesus in heaven for 1000 years according to j.w.

The Marvster

Is their a major inconsistency here ?

OMG, there absolutely IS. thanks smiddy. That one went way over my head and was never thought about while I was in the 'truth'....

so much of this stuff previously accepted, when now questioned or revealed under a different light IS TOTALLY NONSENSICAL....

wow!

25

Dreaming

by Sabin in

friends i have question to ask.

i suffered with horrific nightmares for along time.

i`m talking years.

The Marvster

Hey rebel8, this makes so much sense to me now, when it first happened i thought i was imagining the reasons for the nightmares going away, but now I figure it can be the only reason. Sounds to me like your dreams were 'very direct' in pointing out what the problem was, it's almost as though the answers are within us and we just have to see them. Adjusted Knowledge it really is amazing what the brain does; it's wonderful how the dreams start to adjust when your life situations change. Personally for me, the dreams were confirmation that I had done the right thing in walking away from that life...

25

Dreaming

by Sabin in

friends i have question to ask.

i suffered with horrific nightmares for along time.

i`m talking years.

The Marvster

Hi Sabin, thanks for the response, and the welcome... Glad I had this conversation about dreams. I have resisted dream dictionaries for the moment, though I have borrowed a few 'dream' books from the library, ones that contain short lists of suggested interpretations and ideas about dreams... One more thing I can say is that, since leaving the org i have become a much more honest person (go figure), and this also comes out in my dreams too.... and it's such a pleasure waking up after a dream realising that in the dream state i was 'true to myself, and honored my emotions' especially when I have what I call 'Jehovah Witness' dreams.... it's really refreshing to awaken and realise that I was totally honest with myself in the dream state...

thanks for all your info, it will be very useful to me and I was glad to be able to get this off my chest thanks to your interesting post, after holding it in for over 2 years

85

"And what happened next was simply unbelievable!"

by Terry in

jw
friends

i always sit in the same spot, just outside starbucks in a vestibule area with a table in the air-conditioned space.

i say "always," but not today.. somebody with two laptops and a table filled with business ledgers was in "my" favorite spot!.

so, i took a tiny wooden table inside the coffee shop on a long padded bench next to 3 other identical tables.. as the clickbait banner ads like to say: "and what happened next was simply unbelievable!".

The Marvster

Terry: It seems like you are from a previous generation to mine and were really honed in regurgitating the watchtower doctrine and method as a Pioneer. I didn't get to those levels (see? I still call them 'levels', gosh I still believe in the hierarchy) but constantly wished I could so that I could skillfully tackle anybody, or get loads of studies by the use of my persuasion, I just was never able to reach for that somehow, though I managed to auxilary pio quite a bit, Just didn't think i had the brass balls to pioneer.

Re: I began looking at how I was thinking. I quickly realized I was NOT really thinking..

So true; My take on the whole thinking thing is that once I really started thinking about all I learned in the org, I realised how much of a fool I was for assuming I 'had the truth'... I handn't thought anything through and even if apparent contradictions or counter arguments came along, I was unwilling to investigate them for fear of the walls coming down so of course I would be unprepared for a 'real thinker'...

Re: That Mormon Elder Cleaned my Clock...

Wow, I love it, I had that done to me by a non-Christian guy on the door who 'schooled' me in bible knowledge telling me, among other numerous facts unknown to me, that there were 4 Jesus' in the bible, I was flabbergasted, and speechless, and with a disgusted look he just quietly and slowly shut his door in my face while I stood there like a deer in headlights not knowing how to respond. When I got home I checked his accuracy.... my first thought? 'shame on you Marv'... lol.. but, still, I wasn't persuaded to actually start thinking, that took a long time to happen.

25

Dreaming

by Sabin in

friends i have question to ask.

i suffered with horrific nightmares for along time.

i`m talking years.

The Marvster

P.S. there's no way you are nuts man, after my experience what you describe is absolutely logical.... unless of course I'm totally nuts myself too... Lol

25

Dreaming

by Sabin in

friends i have question to ask.

i suffered with horrific nightmares for along time.

i`m talking years.

The Marvster

Hi Sabin, I've been trawling through the topics as there are so many added every day.... it was a pleasant surprise to stumble across your thread.... I've wanted to talk about this for ages, but there was nobody who could understand it fully (well that's what I thought at least), because I think my dreams have changed as a direct result of leaving the org...

I used to have terrible nightmares, very regularly, ranging from violent gangs attacking me, recurring plane crash dreams, to filthy graphic demonic murderous bloody killings; I killed with my bare hands in a very bloody manner on several occasions (either humans or demon-like creatures) and awoke feeling as though I was a despicable demonic human, I do not exaggerate.... Well, guess what happened? after I got DF'd, I decided to find out about life on my own terms, and soon enough I started to discover why I was constantly in fear, fear for no reason, every morning on awakening, before leaving for work, this horrible gnawing unexplained fear ... after having an epiphany about the causes, I started to work at them. For me, they were to do with a total lack of self value, and putting all other people above my own importance; i was basically deeply unhappy and constantly devalued of my own opinions and worth etc. After about 3 or 4 months of working at this, trying to learn to accept and value myself as much as or even more than others, I noticed that my underlying uneasiness started to fade and for the first time ever, I actually felt what it was like to be myself, I had NEVER EVER felt this feeling before, and once I got this confidence, I noticed one day, that my nightmares had almost completely ceased, it had happened so gradually that i didn't notice that they had disappeared several weeks before.

Also as I gained confidence in myself, I started some self comfort methods before going to bed; I would tell myself that 'absolutely nothing can harm me' and even if an entity attacked me, all it could do was 'kill me' and nothing more.. I'm amazed as I think back to this because I don't even know how I came across these ideas... I was doing a lot of dismantling of the watchtower doctrine and belief systems at the time and listening to my heart and intuition and to philosophers etc on youtube. Then on a few occasions as I slept I felt these so-called entities sitting on me, trying to suffocate me etc, and one night i had enough and thought 'I'm not moving', and I just laid there and let it sit on me, it felt like it was happening all night' and I refused to move or get terrified... and since then these apparently demonic dreams all but disappeared... I don't know if it was a result of gaining confidence, I have no idea, all I can say is that when I was in the org, I had a lot of anxiety, over field service, giving talks, secret sins, feeling like a loner, no sisters interested in me etc etc, a long list of anxiety creating thought processes... with all that behind me I just think I changed psychologically which seemed to affect the subconscious... I do get irregular nightmares from time to time but like yourself I am into dream analysis and I try to figure out what they mean for me, so they are not even a problem anymore. I actually had one last night which left me subdued all day, but after spending hours pondering its meaning some interesting things came out and I learned more about myself and my inner feelings... this is how I try to use the dreams I have, to help me come to terms with my inner BS....!

thanks again for posting...

85

"And what happened next was simply unbelievable!"

by Terry in

jw
friends

i always sit in the same spot, just outside starbucks in a vestibule area with a table in the air-conditioned space.

i say "always," but not today.. somebody with two laptops and a table filled with business ledgers was in "my" favorite spot!.

so, i took a tiny wooden table inside the coffee shop on a long padded bench next to 3 other identical tables.. as the clickbait banner ads like to say: "and what happened next was simply unbelievable!".

The Marvster

Terry, you are the 'devil's child' you 'badass Mo Fo' from Hell...... THAT WAS BRILLIANT... I sat here 'wishing' I could even begin to imagine how to broach a subject like that in such an impromptu manner with gung ho witnesses... wow, you were thinking on your feet, AMAZING..

Here's what I think, as JW's we were all taught to be a little bit arrogant, i.e. we were so prepped that we almost ALWAYS had the upper hand when preaching to the others, we were spoon fed all the clever answers, and didn't have to invest much time thinking about how to talk to people because we had all the weaponry provided practically word for word in the publications; we were just lucky enough to supposedly know more than the average Joe, and often we would have an answer for 'every' objection, that's what the reasoning book and monthly KM's were there for, all of it filtered down from very experienced field service veterans and the results research on millions of hours of field service conversations, all compiled into the ultimate objection destroyer. Maybe once in a while we had the daunting misfortune of coming across somebody who could actually 'think' and stop us in our tracks, but that may have seldom been the case... so, we thought we can handle anybody, we were indestructible blah blah blah... and this is exactly where those two witnesses might have been coming from... learned arrogance or unchallenged self assurance... it's not their fault, they're just a product of the watchtower method.. and then they meet Terry, and then 'KABOOM'

Maybe for the first time EVER, they were made to think for themselves, and they didn't like it; massive cognitive dissonance going on there.. you are totally within your rights to feel bad Terry, after all they are your feelings, but I'll tell you one thing; with all the anger I've been experiencing lately, realising how much of my life that org stole after I bought into their 'truth', ignorant of the mountain of hidden lies behind it all, It was a massive comfort seeing a couple of their pawns get what was coming to them, thank you for contributing to my healing... you can't always pamper people anyway, and you did it in a fairly respectful manner, Imagine how Jesus would have dealt with them (just think of his rant with the pharisees), even if they don't awaken, then they might be a bit more careful about what they say to their next preaching victim....

Nothing but praise and admiration for your courage and ingenuity.... 'one badass devil's advocate'